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> Deliberate misgendering. This includes deadnaming or persistently using a pronoun that does not correctly reflect a person’s gender identity. Ummm, wouldn't

by wtbob 11y ago

> Deliberate misgendering. This includes deadnaming or persistently using a pronoun that does not correctly reflect a person’s gender identity. Ummm, wouldn't 'misgendering' be using a pronoun which disagrees with someone's actual gender, as opposed to self-perceived gender? Is it 'mistitling' to refer to someone who thinks that he's Napoleon Bonaparte as 'him' rather than 'his Imperial and Royal Majesty'? > Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. We will not act on complaints regarding: > ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia’ So, the SCUM Manifesto would be welcome? Seems unwise to me.

beaugunderson 11y ago
Deadnaming (that is: referring to someone by an old name, often used to describe referring to a trans person by a pre-transition name) is used as harassment and you can imagine how unpleasant it might be, especially if the people in a community you're in don't know that you're trans. I am a very heavy GitHub user and I am very glad that the CoC includes language for this.
rabbyte 11y ago
The code of conduct seems to agree with the stance that all gender is self-perceived. The idea can easily be reduced to: respect people enough to address them the way they want to be addressed.
- wtbob 11y ago
  > The code of conduct seems to agree with the stance that all gender is self-perceived. A man who thinks he's a woman…is still a man; a woman who thinks she's a man…is still a woman. One's gender is a fact of nature; it's an issue of objective reality, not of subjective experience. Why, just a bit ago there was an article here on HN noting that teenagers suffering from gender dysphoria have hormone levels appropriate to their actual, not perceived, sexes. > The idea can easily be reduced to: respect people enough to address them the way they want to be addressed. Oh sure, I'll address anyone as he wishes to be addressed. But the English, German and French first-person pronouns are all ungendered, and it's simply wrong to talk about someone with the incorrect pronouns. I'd probably address the man who thinks he's Napoleon 'your Imperial and Royal Majesty,' in order to avoid causing further mental distress, but when speaking to others about him I'd refer simply use 'him.' Words mean things, and if one's neither Charles Marie Jérôme Victor Napoléon nor Jean Christophe Louis Ferdinand Albéric Napoléon, one doesn't fulfil the requirements of the title of the Bonapartist emperor. I suppose one could argue that since online communication tends to be public, and thus the subject of a conversation could happen upon it, it's better to avoid further disturbing someone by continuing to humour him even in the third person, but it seems pretty extreme to require that.
  - rabbyte 11y ago
    I disagree but I understand. I have family that feels similar about me.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
I think that on the internet, it's not actually that relevant - especially if you put up the old internet anonymity. There was another thread that said a thing or two about the "meritocracy" rug that was removed, but IMHO that's what Github is about - not gender, preferred pronouns, sexuality, skin color, etc, but code and contribution (in any form).

by wtbob 11y ago

beaugunderson 11y ago

Deadnaming (that is: referring to someone by an old name, often used to describe referring to a trans person by a pre-transition name) is used as harassment and you can imagine how unpleasant it might be, especially if the people in a community you're in don't know that you're trans. I am a very heavy GitHub user and I am very glad that the CoC includes language for this.

rabbyte 11y ago

The code of conduct seems to agree with the stance that all gender is self-perceived. The idea can easily be reduced to: respect people enough to address them the way they want to be addressed.

wtbob 11y ago
> The code of conduct seems to agree with the stance that all gender is self-perceived. A man who thinks he's a woman…is still a man; a woman who thinks she's a man…is still a woman. One's gender is a fact of nature; it's an issue of objective reality, not of subjective experience. Why, just a bit ago there was an article here on HN noting that teenagers suffering from gender dysphoria have hormone levels appropriate to their actual, not perceived, sexes. > The idea can easily be reduced to: respect people enough to address them the way they want to be addressed. Oh sure, I'll address anyone as he wishes to be addressed. But the English, German and French first-person pronouns are all ungendered, and it's simply wrong to talk about someone with the incorrect pronouns. I'd probably address the man who thinks he's Napoleon 'your Imperial and Royal Majesty,' in order to avoid causing further mental distress, but when speaking to others about him I'd refer simply use 'him.' Words mean things, and if one's neither Charles Marie Jérôme Victor Napoléon nor Jean Christophe Louis Ferdinand Albéric Napoléon, one doesn't fulfil the requirements of the title of the Bonapartist emperor. I suppose one could argue that since online communication tends to be public, and thus the subject of a conversation could happen upon it, it's better to avoid further disturbing someone by continuing to humour him even in the third person, but it seems pretty extreme to require that.
- rabbyte 11y ago
  I disagree but I understand. I have family that feels similar about me.

Cthulhu_ 11y ago

I think that on the internet, it's not actually that relevant - especially if you put up the old internet anonymity. There was another thread that said a thing or two about the "meritocracy" rug that was removed, but IMHO that's what Github is about - not gender, preferred pronouns, sexuality, skin color, etc, but code and contribution (in any form).