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Full stop? Sorry, but there are millions of people who strongly disagree with your perspective, and the points they have to make are very fair ones indeed. You

by alexqgb 11y ago

Full stop? Sorry, but there are millions of people who strongly disagree with your perspective, and the points they have to make are very fair ones indeed. You may not like them, and you may not agree with them. But saying the matter isn't even open for discussion? In a free country, censoring speech and debate in that fashion simply isn't you prerogative. You say race signifies nothing meaningful and that all races should be treated the equally? Fine. Others say race is deeply connected to power, and because power has been distributed so unequally - and so unjustly - then any position that carefully (or furiously) evades this basic truth is a part of the problem, not the solution. That seems - at the very least - like a reasonable topic for discussion. Of course, if we were working from a place where race was as irrelevant as eye color, and we were talking about introducing a class system based on race, then your "base no judgements on race" position would be an admirable defense of egalitarian values. But applied to a society where huge racial inequalities are the norm, the opposite is true. Given this reality, there's nothing admirable about policies that act as if those inequalities don't exist. Indeed, suddenly becoming "color blind" is one of the surest ways to ensure that injustice remains firmly entrenched. To give you an ides of how ridiculous it sounds when people ignore such obvious inequalities, consider the absurdity and cruelty encapsulated in the remark that "The law, in all its majesty, prevents the rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges."

foxhill 11y ago
your narrative of what defines racism is, whilst sort of poetic, entirely without merit. wether someone discriminates on race/sex, no matter what way for (e.g anti-white/male, etc.), you are being racist. that is all racism is. to incorporate the term racist with something like "anti-black", is to incorporate black racism into the word racism, and, by extension, almost deny that other sorts of racism exist. co-incidentally (and perhaps unsurprisingly), your justifications sound alarmingly similar to new-wave feminism movements, that, in general, seem to be themselves horrendously sexist. i didn't invent the last 10,000 years of human culture, and there are plenty of things that i dislike about it. i believe someone's racial/sexual identity should not be a discriminating factor in their lives. for someone else to deny me of input on either side of the discussion about how to implement those ideals, because of my "privilege" is idiocy.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
Yes, full stop. The moment you take race, culture, or anything into consideration when you make a judgment on anything, positive or negative, you're racist.
- alexqgb 11y ago
  Oddly enough, the people who define racism in that way tend to be operating from positions of power. It is rare for people who have historically been in positions of weakness to define racism as you do here.
  - SamReidHughes 11y ago
    Why do you think it's rare? From what I've seen, it's common. Edit: To clarify, common as in "not rare, per se."
    - SamReidHughes 11y ago
      I decided to look up proposition 209 exit polls [1]. (Proposition 209 ended affirmative action in California university admissions.) Support for Prop. 209 was: white 63%, black 26%, latino 24%, asian 39%. Another article [2] says that exit polling showed 27% of people that voted for 209 "also voiced support for 'affirmative-action programs designed to help women and minorities.'" (The question was in fact, "Are you in favor of both private and public affirmative action programs designed to help women and minorities get better jobs and education, or are you opposed to them?" It's from the L.A. Times exit poll [1]) Note that the overall proportion on that question was 54% in favor, 46% opposed. I now invite you to divine what proportion of each minority group was in fact confused voters. Now, this is affirmative action, not the definition of racism, personally I'd expect exit polls asking "Is it racist for a black store owner to ban whites from his store?" to get "Yes" with quite a higher proportion across all the population than what you see here. (And "Is it racist for a white store owner to ban whites from his store?" would get a ton of yesses too.) [1] http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2008-10/43120439.pdf http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2008-10/43120439.pdf [2] http://www.csmonitor.com/1996/1205/120596.opin.opin.2.html http://www.csmonitor.com/1996/1205/120596.opin.opin.2.html

by alexqgb 11y ago

foxhill 11y ago

your narrative of what defines racism is, whilst sort of poetic, entirely without merit. wether someone discriminates on race/sex, no matter what way for (e.g anti-white/male, etc.), you are being racist. that is all racism is. to incorporate the term racist with something like "anti-black", is to incorporate black racism into the word racism, and, by extension, almost deny that other sorts of racism exist. co-incidentally (and perhaps unsurprisingly), your justifications sound alarmingly similar to new-wave feminism movements, that, in general, seem to be themselves horrendously sexist. i didn't invent the last 10,000 years of human culture, and there are plenty of things that i dislike about it. i believe someone's racial/sexual identity should not be a discriminating factor in their lives. for someone else to deny me of input on either side of the discussion about how to implement those ideals, because of my "privilege" is idiocy.

Cthulhu_ 11y ago

Yes, full stop. The moment you take race, culture, or anything into consideration when you make a judgment on anything, positive or negative, you're racist.

alexqgb 11y ago
Oddly enough, the people who define racism in that way tend to be operating from positions of power. It is rare for people who have historically been in positions of weakness to define racism as you do here.
- SamReidHughes 11y ago
  Why do you think it's rare? From what I've seen, it's common. Edit: To clarify, common as in "not rare, per se."
  - SamReidHughes 11y ago
    I decided to look up proposition 209 exit polls [1]. (Proposition 209 ended affirmative action in California university admissions.) Support for Prop. 209 was: white 63%, black 26%, latino 24%, asian 39%. Another article [2] says that exit polling showed 27% of people that voted for 209 "also voiced support for 'affirmative-action programs designed to help women and minorities.'" (The question was in fact, "Are you in favor of both private and public affirmative action programs designed to help women and minorities get better jobs and education, or are you opposed to them?" It's from the L.A. Times exit poll [1]) Note that the overall proportion on that question was 54% in favor, 46% opposed. I now invite you to divine what proportion of each minority group was in fact confused voters. Now, this is affirmative action, not the definition of racism, personally I'd expect exit polls asking "Is it racist for a black store owner to ban whites from his store?" to get "Yes" with quite a higher proportion across all the population than what you see here. (And "Is it racist for a white store owner to ban whites from his store?" would get a ton of yesses too.) [1] http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2008-10/43120439.pdf http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2008-10/43120439.pdf [2] http://www.csmonitor.com/1996/1205/120596.opin.opin.2.html http://www.csmonitor.com/1996/1205/120596.opin.opin.2.html