3 ms·

I've always found it fairly easy. Why do you think it's a disaster?

dvanduzer 11y ago
The key question I'd ask is "casual Python user coming from which other ecosystem?" Have you tried setting $JAVA_HOME and restarting? rimshot Here's a good overview of real world issues: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2012/6/22/hate-hate-hate-everywhere/ http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2012/6/22/hate-hate-hate-everywhere/ (I'd imagine the core team thinks Armin should just embrace Python 3 already. And some of the details have changed since this post, naturally.)
- SEJeff 11y ago
  And the update where he loves wheels: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/1/27/python-on-wheels/ http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/1/27/python-on-wheels/
  - pekk 11y ago
    I assume you're being sarcastic, since "it kinda works" is not a ringing endorsement (and the entire piece has the same sulky tone).
    - SEJeff 11y ago
      Well if you know Armin, you know that it about as close to a compliment as it gets from him :) I help co-maintain salt, a config management tool which he used and contributed quite a few bug reports to.
metalliqaz 11y ago
I'm in the likely unique position of being a serious Python user that has almost no experience with virtualenv, pip, setuptools, or any python packaging. I have no control over the hosts I have to support, which means I can never count on packages to be installed. I almost always use pure python 2.5-2.7. I'm also a Windows user. From that perspective, I can see the OP's point. For most of Windows history, if you needed a library installed, you'd install it. Every installation was accomplished through the familiar Windows installer. If you needed a newer version, you installed it. There was process, and one target. Now take modern Python. A new layer has been introduced, where you may run every project in a new target, or through the 'default' install. In addition, you have libraries and packages that may be installed through one of several different installers or processes, most of which are different than the OS's package management, and which aren't necessarily compatible and aren't tightly managed. This is on top of multiple python versions that may have to be installed. I can see where he's coming from. That being said I love Python and I respect the work that has been done to allow such a vibrant user base.
- pekk 11y ago
  You're a serious Python user that has no experience with any of the last decade's tools for packaging, and you find things hard without using any of those tools, and THAT'S why you can see where he's coming from?

The key question I'd ask is "casual Python user coming from which other ecosystem?" Have you tried setting $JAVA_HOME and restarting? rimshot Here's a good overview of real world issues: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2012/6/22/hate-hate-hate-everywhere/ http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2012/6/22/hate-hate-hate-everywhere/ (I'd imagine the core team thinks Armin should just embrace Python 3 already. And some of the details have changed since this post, naturally.)

SEJeff 11y ago
And the update where he loves wheels: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/1/27/python-on-wheels/ http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/1/27/python-on-wheels/
- pekk 11y ago
  I assume you're being sarcastic, since "it kinda works" is not a ringing endorsement (and the entire piece has the same sulky tone).
  - SEJeff 11y ago
    Well if you know Armin, you know that it about as close to a compliment as it gets from him :) I help co-maintain salt, a config management tool which he used and contributed quite a few bug reports to.

metalliqaz 11y ago

I'm in the likely unique position of being a serious Python user that has almost no experience with virtualenv, pip, setuptools, or any python packaging. I have no control over the hosts I have to support, which means I can never count on packages to be installed. I almost always use pure python 2.5-2.7. I'm also a Windows user. From that perspective, I can see the OP's point. For most of Windows history, if you needed a library installed, you'd install it. Every installation was accomplished through the familiar Windows installer. If you needed a newer version, you installed it. There was process, and one target. Now take modern Python. A new layer has been introduced, where you may run every project in a new target, or through the 'default' install. In addition, you have libraries and packages that may be installed through one of several different installers or processes, most of which are different than the OS's package management, and which aren't necessarily compatible and aren't tightly managed. This is on top of multiple python versions that may have to be installed. I can see where he's coming from. That being said I love Python and I respect the work that has been done to allow such a vibrant user base.

pekk 11y ago
You're a serious Python user that has no experience with any of the last decade's tools for packaging, and you find things hard without using any of those tools, and THAT'S why you can see where he's coming from?